Friday, June 13, 2008

Dear Conservatives, I'm Pro-Abortion! And You Know What That Makes You?


I really tire of the abortion debate. Even so-called liberals that I have contact with through various political groups always claim to understand the motivations behind the Anti-American clusterfuck that is the conservative party and their holy quest to deprive women of fundamental freedoms.

I'm talking, specifically, about reproductive freedom.

You dudes: us women, well, we don't rape people in the same numbers you do. We can also chalk our violence up to mental deficiencies, rather than the self-perpetuating prophecy of masculinity. If you weren't content with the free pass the justice system has given men to rape women that I detailed exhaustively in my last post, your penis-buddies on Capitol Hill also would like us women to know that they value the "life" of a clump of cells, a fetus, or whatever you want to call it, more than freedom.

Because in case you haven't gotten the message: America's "freedoms" only apply to white men. Also, because I'm having a bad day, I tire of talking points and meaningless posturing.

So here it is, for everyone who cares to know: I'm Pro-Abortion. I don't dress my opinions up with fancy terms like "pro-choice" to distance my stance from the fact that I am supporting the systematic termination of a pregnancy that will result in the "death" of a fetus, embryo, fertilized egg, or a sack of cells that might be a human depending on your political agenda.

So, I admit that I am Pro-Abortion. Which means that if we wish to dispose of loaded phrases and cut to the heart of the issue, we're going to redefine "Pro-Life".

Note: graphic shamelessly lifted from Andy Singer's No Exit

First, you are not pro-life. Most conservatives support the death penalty, and holding enemy combatants in Guantanamo Bay until presumably the Apocalypse or nuclear winter. Killing people and torturing them isn't pro-life. Conservatives also shoot down any efforts to expand affordable health care, even to children. That's not pro-life either.

To liberal dudes who sympathize with conservatives: you might be pro-life. Sure, you might oppose the death penalty. You probably think water-boarding sucks. Your trendy liberal sentiments might also require you to admit that reducing the cost of health care is instrumentally important to the thousands of children who go without. However, you do share something fundamental with anti-abortion conservatives:

You're Anti-American.

Nothing is more intrinsic to the idea of Americanism than freedom. Not the hijacked definition of freedom which is used to mount submachine guns on a suburban Hummer, but the kind of freedom to go where I want and do what I please, provided I am not impeding anyone's rights. Probably the best and most basic exercise of freedom is that over your own body. Someone that does not even have the right to control their own body would, obviously, be a slave.

Now we've arrived at a point where sound bites are irrelevant. If I wish to be honest, then I must say that I am firmly and completely Pro-Abortion. If you wish to be "pro-life", you must oppose the unnatural and purposeful death of all of humanity. Your policies, instead encourage or allow war, torture, grueling child poverty, or a complete dismissal of the rulings of the Supreme Court. Anti-abortion activists and sympathizers are firmly and completely Pro-Slavery (of the reproductive variety) and Anti-American.

So let's just cut the bullshit, okay? I admit that I love abortion. Now you admit that you love reproductive slavery, and that you hate freedom. Fair is fair, after all.



CaptainJuan said...

You know, Jen, as much as I agree with a lot of the sentiments you express in this post, I really don't think that the way you're phrasing things here will do anything good for constructive political dialogue either on this blog or in the US/World.

The Great American said...

This is probably the single most absurd thing I've read on this blog and that is saying alot! I am pro-life. I hate abortion and I do support the death penalty. To say someone isn't truly pro-life because they support the death penalty is a very weak argument. First of all, the death penalty is a punishment to criminals who knowingly break the law and are found guilty by a jury of their peers. They are guilty. Abortion is senseless murder of the innocent. The innocent. What have they done to deserve death? Conceived by a selfish broad? Don't give me the piss-poor argument about rape and incest because those two along with the impending doom upon a mothers life are reasons that account for LESS than 1.5% of all abortions. In other words 98.5% of abortions are performed due to the selfishness of the mother. Don't want to be a slave to pregnancy? Don't want the responsibilty of a child? Here's a novel idea...DON"T HAVE SEX! If you can't be an adult and own up to your actions, then quit trying to act like an adult! THAT is control over your body! Abortion is the cowards way out! You wanna talk about child poverty? Simply look to the left side of the aisle, look to the people who keep throwing welfare around like candy and keeping people in poverty. Hell, why go out and get a job when the government gives us free money. So it's the "liberals" or "progressives" that are keeping poverty stricken people, poverty stricken. Since when is keeping known terrorists at guantanamo bay a pro-life issue? There are 270 terrorists at Gitmo right now, it took only 19 terrorists to hijack 4 planes and kill just under 3,000 people. So you know what, if keeping them there until the "apocalypse or nuclear winter" or dumping some water on their face will prevent roughly 14 more 9/11 like attacks. Then I say, let's keep them there. Do you have the same problem with American prisons? Where we throw murderers away for life? Is it wrong for me to be pro-life and support life prison terms. I'm afraid that your logic is quite twisted here. And I'm sorry if I came off a little brash, I'm just, like yourself, very passionate about this subject.

The Great American said...

Also about the whole rape thing. i admire that you've found a few examples from shenanigans of "upstanding" trial lawyers because we all know they are completely sane i.e. John Edwards channeling the dead. But thats neither here nor there. Yes, more men commit acts of rape then women. But consider this, nine times out of ten men are going to physically over-power women. So if a man attempts to rape a woman he will have a much easier go at it, whereas if a woman attempts rape a man, the man will most likely tee-off on her. So in other words, women who rape will most likely only be able to rape other women and maybe a man every once in a long while, where on the other hand men will be more able to rape men and women. And don't take this as me making excuse for rapists, because if you ask me, they should recieve the death penalty or they should be waterboarded at Club Gitmo.

And your excuse as saying that you can chalk a woman raping up to "a mental deficinecy" and a man raping up to, well, being a man tells me this is your mind set: Men are pigs and women are I correct in assuming that?

Anonymous said...
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CaptainJuan said...

Woops. Sorry. The first comment is me. Had it set to my standard internet alias for some reason, which I have forgotten.

Jen said...

The Great American-
A lot of the arguments I have seen about abortion claim that the "will of God" is that you keep the child. How is a death penalty not like playing God? I think it's intellectually dishonest to say that you're "pro-life", but only as it applies to unborn fetuses. Besides, my opinion, which is in line with most of the medical community, is that abortion isn't "death" of a human being.

Also, regardless of the reasoning behind abortions, no woman should be forced to be a mother. Fathering a child does not require 9 months of body-warping discomfort and painful delivery. Besides, people are never going to stop having sex. Even if we outlawed abortion and women and men were paranoid about birth control, accidents would happen. Furthermore, outlawing abortion does not mean that it will stop. this article is from a doctor who recalls the horror of emergencies when back-alley abortions went wrong before Roe v Wade.

Also, if the "terrorists" at Gitmo are truly terrorists, and willing and able to stage a major attack, then trying them by law, as ruled as necessary by our Supreme Court, should be able to find them guilty of conspiracy to attack the U.S. and in violation of the UN charter. Keeping them without trial puts the U.S. in violation of international law. We have nothing to lose by trying them, and everything to gain. Considering that even the conservative-dominated Supreme Court has ruled, several times, that Gitmo is completely and totally illegal, we probably should try them for whatever they are being held for.

Also, on your rape point, part of the reason why feminists assume male on female and male on male rape is much more common than female on female or female on male rape is that the idea of masculinity is tied into violence. That, at least, is a pretty basic tenant of second-wave feminist theory. Women do not have the same sort of social force celebrating our female virility and power with violence and control. Men do. Which means I am much more apt to believe a woman who claims insanity in a rape trial rather than a man.

Faith said...

That was one helluva post, Jen. Loving it.

Great American,

I'd take the time to respond to your comments, but I fail to see any reason to waste my time on your sexism. Men like you will never understand.

Kacie said...

Great American-
Think about this:

Rape doesn't have to stay confined in the little, traditional box of dark alley, stranger rape. I think plenty of women are raped, or maybe terribly coeerced, into sex. In a patriarchy, it is almost impossible for a woman to give full consent to sex simply because of the power structures in play.

Thank you for this post, Jen.

I am pro-abortion as well!

Empy said...

Liberals have shown themselves to be Anti-American time and again.

Also, nowhere in the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights does it state that you have the right to "sexual freedom" or "reproductive freedom".

Empy said...

"I don't dress my opinions up with fancy terms like "pro-choice" to distance my stance from the fact that I am supporting the systematic termination of a pregnancy that will result in the "death" of a fetus, embryo, fertilized egg, or a sack of cells that might be a human depending on your political agenda."

Ironic. Because even as you assert that you don't dress your opinions in fancy terms, you did so and distanced yourself from the idea of support systemic bla bla bla by putting the word "death" in quotes. A fetus is indeed alive; it is a system of LIVING cells, and aborting it does in fact kill it. You are trying to water it down and mock the idea that a fetus can be killed by implying that it is not alive to begin with. Nice one.

Empy said...
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Empy said...
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Kate said...

Actually, Empty, only two people can moderate comments on this post, so sometimes it takes a while to get to them. Espically since both of us work.

The Great American said...


The Bible as I recall does consider murder a sin. The Bible also allows for capital punishment. And the Bible is what I try to live by as best as I can. And with that being said, I would rather put my faith in and believe the Bible and God over the medical community any day. You're right, women shouldn't be forced to mother children, however if they choose to have sex, they know the consequences and they know that no birth control is 100% effective and they go in to a sexual experience knowing what the outcome could be. And if they are not mature enough to take care of the outcome (and when I say take care, I mean have the child or put it upt for adoption)they shouldn't be having sex. The only reason I would condone an abortion is if the mothers life were in imminent danger. As far as the rape excuse, let me ask you this, will aborting the child conceived due to a rape erase the emotional scars already in place because of the rape? No it won't, so what is the point in killing the child? Make the baby suffer because of someone elses action? And you're right just because we outlaw abortion does not mean it will stop, but I'm fairly sure the numbers will decrease in mass numbers. And that argument is weak because thats like saying, "well why don't we legalize everything and let the government regulate it, bacause no matter what, it'll happen anyways".

As far as the terrorists, if they are not US citizens, they should not be afforded the same rights that we as Americans have, especially since their goal is to destroy America. The US (and any other country) should not be a slave to international or UN law, it undermines our sovreignty as an independent nation. The simple fact that the UN invited tyrant/starver of his own people, Robert Mugabe to a summit of the world food shortage ought to tell you something about the worthless UN.

PS. I'm not sure which supreme court you're referring to, but SCOTUS is far from conservative dominated.

Michael said...

"Reproductive Freedom" and "sexual freedom" are considered to be part of the right to privacy, which is considered to be one of the rights protected by the 10th amendment, through multiple SCOTUS decisions.

Also, a fetus is not legally considered to be a human life until a certain point in its development. The point varies between states.

Thirdly, have fun banning alcohol. You have the right to be as alcoholic as you want to be, pal. Knock yourself out. Just don't drive, or beat your husband/wife/children/etc. As for heroin, keep that crap illegal.

Finally, good job on the sarcastic comment about the liberals. You're sure doing a fabulous job at helping to promote a constructive meaningful dialogue between people with differing opinions.


Jen said...

I have better things to do then debunk your asinine arguments. Like pick my nose. I will delete them if they become offensive or start hijacking the thread.

The Great American:
I can't intellectually argue with you on the grounds on the Bible because I happen to be Jewish. A really bad Jew at that. I don't think I've gone to a religious service since I was 15. I confine my rhetoric strictly to logic. There's nothing wrong, per say, with following the Bible, but I do want to ask you this: is everything in the Bible the right thing? Is it right to have several wives? I mean, all the biblical men did it, and some even sold their daughters into what I presume was sexual slavery.

Also, your argument about "terrorists" is circular and begs the question. If they are terrorists they don't have rights in our legal system. But we never determine them as terrorists because we never try them. But we can't try them because we've already assumed they are terrorists.

Which is a load of horse shit if you ask me. Try them. If they turn out to be terrorists, then we can talk about what kind of rights they have. If it turns out that they were seized on shaky grounds and aren't an immediate threat to America (and should, thus, be dealt with by an international court or their own country) then a question of rights that they have is irrelevant. The UN's charter of Human Rights exists for a reason. We can't just pretend that some brown dude is a terrorist and then use that excuse to avoid actually proving he's a terrorist. I'm studying International Law right now, of the ICC variety, and I can tell you definitively that how our government treats POWs is blatantly against our own laws and international laws. Which is probably why Furher/President Bush has decided not to sign the ICC charter and lambaste the UN.

The Great American said...

"is everything in the Bible the right thing?"

Thats a good question. There is alot of stuff for example in the old testament that was done ritually in order to atone for sin...animal sacrifice, etc. But as a Christian (and this is where we would differ, you being Jewish and all...practicing or not) I believe Christ died on the cross to atone for all sins. That as he hung on the cross he bore all of the past, present and future sins of mankind and died as result of the sin. He did that so those of us who accept the sacrifice of Jesus, will not die per se, but live eternally in Heaven, thus fullfilling the old testament law of works in order to atone for sin. Meaning Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, making things like animal sacrifice irrelevant. And as far as things like multiple wives, alot of that was cultural things of the day that were recorded for the simple fact that it was part of the culture then.

And I will admit that I am not schooled in international law by any means, but how exactly are we treating our POW's that is against our laws? And how can you say so, so "matter of factly"? And personally I applaud ANYONE that tells the UN to "shove it"!

an.optimistic.cynic said...

As an ex right-wing evangelical, I thought I might have a relevant point or two.
I’m speaking from personal experience only, so individual results may vary. Fundamentalists believe that a woman’s primary role in life is to give birth. A woman who – for whatever reason – is unable to give birth is pitied. Not necessarily looked down upon, but there is certainly a lot of “poor thing” and “tsk” going on.
Thus a woman who ends a pregnancy is performing an abomination by not fulfilling her duty as a woman.
I’m sure this ties in to that line of crap about “before I formed you, I knew you” line in the Bible.
The women in my family find it unfathomable that a woman could “choose” such an action. Not long ago, the subject came up about abortion when a woman’s life was at stake. My aunt is of the opinion that a woman should carry a child to term even if it kills her.
The problem with evangelicals is that they so seldom stop to think about why they believe something, or to explore issues further than a gut, knee-jerk reaction.

One point I saw on seems relevant as well: something like 20% of all pregnancies end naturally. Does that mean God made a mistake? Maybe he really does know everyone before he forms them, and this 20% were all assholes?

God is the most prolific abortionist of all.

The Great American said...

"something like 20% of all pregnancies end naturally. Does that mean God made a mistake? Maybe he really does know everyone before he forms them, and this 20% were all assholes?

God is the most prolific abortionist of all."

That is what you call logic? Look at the first line of that: ..."end naturally". I think abortion is an abomination not because women aren't fullfilling "their womanly duties", but because to me abortion is the murder of innocent lives.

Amelia said...

To be 100% honest, I have not read this entire post.

And some of the comments make me worried about doing so........

Be careful, Jen.